pwSurface 2

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Lakys
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pwSurface 2

Post by Lakys » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:58 pm

Except the last render, I found the last promo renders disappointing. This product can do probably much better. *sigh*

It was the first shader to introduce true subsurface scattering in DAZ Studio. Now the competition is serious with Omnifreaker's Human Surface, Pendragons' shader and some others.

Anyway, 50% sale on all the shaders, tempting no?

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Post by Bob Morane » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:12 pm

Probably too tempting for me, i think i'll buy pwSurface and pwToons (i still don't have this one)
But then, i'll have to learn how to use them correctly :roll:

EDIT -> Didn't resist, I bought it :roll:
According to theSea, this new shader is really better to render skin. Considering he's far from a beginner, his advice convinced me to buy it.

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Post by Lakys » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:42 pm

Bob Morane wrote:According to theSea, this new shader is really better to render skin. Considering he's far from a beginner, his advice convinced me to buy it.
Indeed, we don't share exactly the same point of view concerning skin shaders and settings. But just like Questor, I guess he knows pretty well what he is talking about on that matter.

Could you provide a link? Such reviews are precious. ;)

Thanks.

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Post by Bob Morane » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:27 pm

There isn't a real review. He posted several comments in this thread in the DAZ forum that let everyone understand he was pleased with the shader.
Thanks poseworks - literally nothing less than I expected from you, sir.

Have product - playing with skin settings - look for some results real soon now. Initial impressions: IMPRESSED!
I need to talk some things over with Walle but I owe you all a rewrite of part 2 and I'm pretty sure we'll be covering pwSurf2 with that now (as well as ditching the offending texture set and providing you with SSS and translucency maps). The improvements over the original for rendering skin seem to be pretty significant.
An early render here

OK, i just had time to install it and the surface grouping script. I will try some quick renders and post them, but probably not before the 50% sale is over :?

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Post by Lakys » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:38 pm

Still really disapointed by what I could see so far (even in this thread).

Bob, I have no doubt but you will easily get something better.

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Post by Lakys » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:05 pm

I bought the entire pack finally :)

Couldn't resist.

Well, in 50 minutes, I could not (yet) make anything worth to show. Truth is that the settings are still very different than the standard shader. It makes really hard to find correct parameters without playing for hours at the try and error game.
I start understanding why we have not seen (yet) any really cool renders.

So for people who have not bought it yet and intend just like me to not use the presets, please count at least 2 or 3 hours before getting anything correct (well with a 5 years old computer). That part alas has not been fixed at all. This version has even more parameters. Some are extremelly time consumming, so keep them off until you figure out why you need them.

Interesting though.

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Post by Bison Ravi » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:38 pm

Lakys wrote:So for people who have not bought it yet and intend just like me to not use the presets, please count at least 2 or 3 hours before getting anything correct (well with a 5 years old computer). That part alas has not been fixed at all. This version has even more parameters. Some are extremelly time consumming, so keep them off until you figure out why you need them.
Some comment from Poseworks: "The render-speed differences between pwSurface 1 and 2 are negligible when using the exact same settings, however pwSurface 2 does include more control over render quality (and thus render time)."

No miracle... :cry:

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Post by Lakys » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:43 pm

Bison Ravi, I am not concerned about the time to render the scene but by the time to get well adjusted settings (which is always linked to the long render times).

I guess it will be the final challenge of EISHA, to provide well adjusted settings for pwSurface and HumanSurface.

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Post by Bison Ravi » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:47 pm

Sorry, you was talking about your old computer, I thought it was a matter of CPU... :oops:

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Post by Lakys » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:55 pm

Bison Ravi wrote:Sorry, you was talking about your old computer, I thought it was a matter of CPU... :oops:
You're correct. That old PC doesn't help. But I have some plan to get a brand new one. :lol:

edit: maybe with a Core i7 :o

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Post by gingercakes47 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:53 am

Hope you're able to get your new computer sooner than DAZ soon. I've been buying mine one part at a time so it will be a while before it's built.

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Post by Lakys » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:30 am

gingercakes47 wrote:Hope you're able to get your new computer sooner than DAZ soon. I've been buying mine one part at a time so it will be a while before it's built.
Sooner than "soon" hopefully. My current computer has made more than its time.

Feel free to start some discussion about your last or future upgrades, it is always interesting to share opinions and views. ;)

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Post by Bob Morane » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:55 pm

Yes, those renders in the thread are mostly quick applications of presets. Those presets are mostly starting points. Plus, in order to render a really good skin, a SSS map would probably be required (or is it where you disagree with theSea. I don't know of a texture set that provides one. Does Elites have one?

I think i have every pw Shader available, now :shock: got them all during various 50% sales fortunately. Some are clearly easier that others to use, but they all have very specific settings.

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Post by Lakys » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:06 pm

Some products have sss maps indeed. Elite maps do not have any. But sss maps are intended for certain things, such translucency, they can be used to make calculations easier and faster. In the case of pwSurface they are not a requirement at all.

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Post by Bob Morane » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:28 am

Ah, i thought it would be an addition useful for shaders that do real SSS. As skin does not have the same thickness all over the body, and due to the presence of veins under the skin, i thought Sub Surface Scattering wouldn't be uniform and that's where a map can become useful.

Now, i don't have a long experience of 3D shaders, i'm thinking with biology references.

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